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Post by achen on Jul 11, 2007 18:18:00 GMT -5
Sorry about posting late. I was just imagining what this would taste like and how he would talk about the food.
Note: Akimoto is a screenwriter and a song writer. Sorry about the correction MA.
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Post by Man Alive! on Jul 11, 2007 21:13:49 GMT -5
I'll fix that right away, achen. I figured he was either a screenwriter or actor based on what I found on the internet, so I took a 50/50 shot.
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Post by Arrianna on Jul 12, 2007 21:08:35 GMT -5
But the cheese sauce makes this dish greasy and extremely heavy. I don't like to argue with the judges but I felt I had to set this straight. You see, European style cheese sauces aren't greasy unless your chef doesn't know how to make it. It's just a white sauce (2 Tbs Flour, 2 Tbs Butter, 2 cups of milk or cream) with a little cheese (1/2 cup or 4 oz) melted into it. The cheese is just there for flavoring and the sauce is actually rather light and very creamy. In fact, I hated that style cheese sauce growing up and always tried to get my mother to triple (or more) the amount of cheese to make it more cheesy and less saucy. lol You are probably thinking of a cheese sauce/dip like what is used in Mexican food where the proportion are more like 1 part cheese to 1 part milk with twice the butter (or more). So basically my reaction when I read that was like: "Uhng, through the heart. Evidently I can't cook." lol
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Post by achen on Jul 12, 2007 21:24:28 GMT -5
Sorry about that. I was thinking about a stove top macaroni cheese sauce. Extremely rich and thick. So it was more like a cream sauce? If it is, it still I think would be heavy. I think serving it as is with a little spice mix would have been great. It is also Akimoto way to always complains about a dish he would like, so that is how I decide what he would react to the dish.
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Post by Arrianna on Jul 12, 2007 21:29:08 GMT -5
Oh, I figured he would complain, doesn't bother me a bit. It was just the word "greasy" I thought I better clear up. Thinking of Mac and Cheese though I can certainly see the confusion. lol I think Mac and Cheese sauce probably has even more cheese in it than Nacho Cheese sauce!
(I will admit that Kiev normally isn't served with a sauce either. Good call.)
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Post by allezcuisine on Jul 15, 2007 16:34:07 GMT -5
I am leaving tomorrow to visit some family (see Member Chat area) in Virginia. I'll be back on Thursday. I'm sorry for the inconvenience.
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Post by Arrianna on Jul 15, 2007 21:33:17 GMT -5
No inconvenience AC.
I have posted my last dish. Now you may all insist that I butchered it's cooking in some way and be done with it. It's insulting and I am finished. I spend hours coming up with new and innovative dishes and research technique extensively. To be informed that my character is a lousy cook so the food sucks? Forget it, it's not worth the time or effort at that point.
I am done. I will not be inconvenienced by you in the slightest AC. You may all go on without me.
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Post by ironchefcanadian on Jul 16, 2007 10:17:06 GMT -5
Excuse me -- I just finished going over the judgements and I didn't see anyone referring to your character as a "lousy cook." Frankly I don't understand why their commentary so far should have upset you so much.
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Post by Arrianna on Jul 16, 2007 11:28:43 GMT -5
There is a basic fundamental rule of online RP'ing. You NEVER control another persons character. When a criticism of a dish in the RP is based on cooking technique, and you say it was done wrong, and it didn't happen in the previous descriptions of the cooking, then you are controlling the character actions.
For example, in a fighting RP you may say "I shoot at _____" but you cannot say "I shot _____ and he falls dead." The first is controlling circumstances the second is controlling the other character.
In a cooking if you say "I find this dish unapealing" that is a personal observation or circumstance. If you say "this vegetable doesn't go well with the sauce" it is a circumstance. However if you say "this dish is over cooked" then you are saying that the chef cooked it wrong and are controlling their actions.
In the criticisms of my dishes I was not receiving opinion and circumstance past the first dish I was getting "this is greasy", "the turkey is dry", "the rice is soggy". All of these are observations that impose on the original cooking. For the sauce to be greasy it would have had to break, for the turkey to be dry it would have to be overcooked, for the rice to be soggy it would have had to have too much water added. Again, every single one of those is a cooking technique and by claiming they happened when you CANNOT trace it to previous posts by my character in the RP you are imposing an action on him.
This is something that has been happening for a while in the RP's and it has bothered me before but after getting 4 comments like that in a row with nearly no comments on the actual idea of the dish and I have had it. It is not fair to the other players to determine what they have done and it removes the fun from the game.
As soon as it ceases to be fun I cease to play.
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Post by Sanji Himura on Jul 16, 2007 12:30:51 GMT -5
I'm sorry but I feel that I must also say a few things.
Arrianna's right, the whole point of the RPG is to have fun, and not overcritizise every little thing about the end results from the chefs. I think that, no offense, ICC and Achen is guilty of that. While I'm personally past my anger with ICC, the two of you must realize that this is for fun, and thus you shouldn't be over-critical when it comes to playing the judges.
Arianna, you too must realize something. If the judges aren't allowed to mentally picture and taste the dishes the chefs make, how would they make the correct comments? When I wrote up the RPG summaries, on almost everyone of them, I had to write that "all dishes were accepted", or something to that effect, when I wrote the judging portion because all of the judges would say that the "dish was very good," and offered no futher explaination. That was not a knock on all of you, but there are different tastes at play.
But above all else, I think that the real problem with this whole fit throwing bit is the lack of knowledge. That is why I put up a resources thread for those who are wondering, hey, what is that cuisines's main dishes, sauces, etc. They can go there and do their background work so they can be knowledgeable about the cuisine before the whole RPG even starts.
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Post by Man Alive! on Jul 16, 2007 12:37:24 GMT -5
Come on guys, we've been doing this for over two years now. It's all just in the name of fun. One should not be too critical over imaginary dishes, and one should not take imaginary criticism too harshly either.
The whole point of the role of "judge" is to read the description, decide if you would like it, and say so. There's no need to pick apart a dish's preparation simply because you are knowledgable enough about cooking to do so. It's a game. Have fun.
Now let's stop arguing and just play the game.
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Post by ironchefcanadian on Jul 16, 2007 13:10:23 GMT -5
The thing is, I'm not reading the comments as an accusation that the challenger cannot cook. I'm reading it more as "this adverse circumstance happened to your dish." That type of thing did happen in ICJ and does happen in ICA, especially when the contestants are working with a difficult or unfamiliar ingredient. That's not a denigration of the character's talent.
A common error RPG players can make is to claim perfection for their creations. In the case of this RPG, my assumption has always been, "if I don't describe the technique, the judges will describe it for me -- and it won't be necessarily to my advantage." I think you're running into the problem that you're describing a technique that the judges aren't readily understanding, and because they haven't understood it, they can't follow what you've done. This doesn't mean your character is a bad cook, it means they have trouble understanding what you've done -- "the Morimoto factor," as it were.
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Post by Arrianna on Jul 16, 2007 13:29:07 GMT -5
ICC, I HAVE described the techniques for my cooking. I have even given the number of time I cook each part of the recipe. If they cannot take the time, as Sanji mentioned, to discover if theirr criticism has any bearing on reality by a simple google search of similar recipes and comparing them with my descriptions then they are wasting my time.
The way it has been done does mean that the chef cannot cook. Consistency is the foremost importance in running a restaurant and the things they are choosing to criticize are not the "unfamiliar" ingredients but basic everyday techniques.
This is not me throwing a fit because I am being criticized. I expect that. This is me being pissed off because the hard work I put into making a realistic fun RP is being trampled on by someone who is imposing actions on my character and trivializing the work I do. I spend hours coming up with new dishes for this RP. Discuss the bloody dish instead of insisting the character doesn't know basic cooking techniques.
Seriously, it isn't fun at that point and I have no desire to do it again unless some type of reasonable guidelines can be come to to keep it from happening anymore. Or would any of you like me to judge your dishes in an RP by informing you you burned them all?
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Post by ironchefcanadian on Jul 16, 2007 13:30:53 GMT -5
Sanji: I agree that this RPGs should be 'for fun.' And I have been having fun, both as a challenger and a judge.
Having said that, whenever I play judge, I believe that when it comes to text-based RPGs, effort equals merit. I tend to come down harder on players who say things like, "I make a chocolate sundae," than on players who write, "I put in a scoop of vanilla ice cream, then a scoop of frozen raspberry yogurt, then a second scoop of vanilla; squirt in a generous amount of chocolate syrup and heated fudge . . . " The more detail I see in a player's preparation, the less likely I am to be nitpicky, because I can see that the player made a strong effort to play well.
I also agree that a Resources page is a good idea, but I think it's also helpful to use the Ohta thread to provide links to pages that the player has referenced, to better explain to the judges what kind of dishes are being created.
And Arianna, please remember: I'm not actually judging this particular contest.
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Post by Arrianna on Jul 16, 2007 13:42:09 GMT -5
Sorry, I will fix that.
I agree that is what this thread is for. For that matter if a judge is unsure on something they can always ask here. Never had a cheese sauce? Ask someone who has what it is like.
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